The Sterling Family Law Show is where successful family law attorneys share the exact systems they used to build million-dollar practices.
Host Jeff Hughes scaled Sterling Lawyers from zero to $20M with 30 attorneys.
Co-host Tyler Dolph runs Rocket Clicks, the agency in charge of supercharging Sterling and other family law practices to success using revenue-first marketing strategies.
Together, they share the playbook for building the law firm of your dreams.
If you're looking to grow exponentially, generate revenue, and get good at business, this podcast is for you.
4. TELL US WHAT YOU WANT: Tell us in the comments if you liked this episode and what other kinds of episodes you would like to see.
Law Firm Succession Planning: Why Law Practice Gets Improvised
Joining Two Partners Who Launched The Firm In 1983
Promoting An Associate To Partner After Six Years
A 50/50 Caseload That Prevents Family Law Attorney Burnout
Small Law Firm Retirement: Promote From Within Or Merge
Building A Book Of Business Through A Referral Network
I think the more you ask for help, you realize a lot of law practice is just making it up. You know, there may not be a rule that addresses what you're trying to do, or they may not be a precedent for what you're trying to do. So get creative. You have to get creative Welcome back to the Sterling Family Law Show. The podcast, designed to help family attorneys build the firm of their dreams. I'm your host, Tyler Dolph. I'm also the CEO of our family law firm only marketing agency called Rocket Clicks that was born out of our very own family law firm, Sterling Lawyers, that has grown to over 38 attorneys. Today we continue our owner operator series, and I interview Alex, who is a partner at a family practice. About 50% of their firm does family, the other 50% they do about everything else. They are a local, you know, do it all shop. And she's found a way to integrate herself with her two partners, who had previously been partners for over 30 years. So I think she provides some great perspective on what it takes to be resilient, to add value to those partners and eventually get the partnership herself. Alex, thanks so much for your time. I'm so excited to hear your story. If you wouldn't mind. Get us started by introducing yourself and your firm, and tell us a little bit about how you got here today. That's not a short story, but I'll start. I'll start with the short version. My name is Alex Claps. I am a partner with a law firm called Hayman and Fletcher. We are in northern new Jersey, sort of near Morristown, a little bit west of Morristown, and we do about half family law and then half everything else. So it's it's a fun, eclectic work environment there. Only right now we have four lawyers, three partners in an associate desperately looking for another associate. If anybody's out there in need of a job, give me a call. And I have been with this firm for I should know this, I guess, nine years now. I guess my, my ten year anniversary will be next September. And I came to the law a little bit late. It's my second career. I was an undergraduate theater major. I was a stage manager for many years, and I at one point decided I could not work every night and every weekend for the rest of my life, so I, I went to law school for the work life balance, which. Not even a joke. I worked full time while I went to law school. So I went to law school part time and my school was pretty chill. They let me kind of make up a part time day program. They had a part time night program, but my job was at night, so they were really very flexible. And after I graduated, I did a judicial clerkship, which is pretty common in new Jersey. One year clerkship. I clerked in civil. I didn't clerk and family. I was a civil law clerk in Essex County. And when I got done, I didn't immediately go to a law firm. I started a company with some former students of mine, and then I did a little bit of doc review, actually, but I was waiting for the right fit. And when this firm had an opening, I knew nothing about family law. I hadn't done an ounce of family law, but I met my guys, my my partners now who had been partners for, I guess, about 35 years at that point. 33 years at that point. Yeah. They started this firm in 1983. they were okay, like after that many years together saying, sure, let's let's add another partner, They added me as an associate, and I was an associate for I think it was five years. Six years. I should know this. I don't I don't remember I was here, I guess I was here. No, I guess I was here six years because my five year anniversary, I was on maternity leave. So it was about a year after I had my son. They said, you know what? You're going to be the only other partner they've ever actually had. They've had other associates over the years. And and they decided to make me a partner and they were great. I love them, it's fantastic. That's amazing. Was that the makeup of the firm? Always half family, half everything else? Or tell me more about that. Just about the ratio varies a little bit. But I think their initial jobs, my partner Ron had been doing like he started out in insurance defense and my other partner, I don't know if he had started in family. He had started again in another small firm. I know he did some family at that firm, and they had been in practice only a few years, only about three years when they came together. And we're we're a very kind of old school, small town law firm. So you need to buy a house. We can help you buy a house. You get pulled over for speeding. We can go to Municipal court with you. You want to add a pool to your house? We go to the zoning board and we can help you do that. You want to do a simple will we do that? Somebody slips and falls in your driveway or not? We really don't do it. Is defense generally because that's what your homeowner's insurance is for. But you get injured in a car accident. We'll take your personal injury case. The only things we don't do really are like medical malpractice, bankruptcy, anything very specialized will, employment law, that sort of thing. And where do you find yourself gravitating towards? I like the balance, I like I my practice is almost exactly 5050 between and and when I say 5050, it's sort of the amount of time I spend, not in the number of cases necessarily. I might have more civil cases, but they take less energy. But I'm spending more of my days on the family law cases because, you know, the needs very civil is a lot more hurry up and wait, families a lot more kind of everyday grind. And there's always an issue with co-parenting, where there's always a new financial wrinkle that we have to sort out with those, and everybody in every area wants their case over with yesterday. So, you know, we do that. But I like the balance because I find that family law really can burn people out. And, you know, I lose patience sometimes with it's, you know, it's $200 you have to spend more money with on the phone with me to fight about the $200 than if you had just paid your ex spouse the $200 for the whatever the prescription toothpaste that your child is using. Like, let's let's keep our focus. I think being outside of the family can help with perspective sometimes. Good point. Yeah, that's that's a funny example. Why do you feel like you were able to raise up through through the ranks and rise up through the ranks? You know, from associate to become a partner. What were some attributes that our listeners can, can hold on to or work on, you know, if they want to continue to ascend the latter as well. In one way. Coming to law school, becoming a lawyer later, I think was very helpful. I didn't get sucked into the way that that law school can be sort of high school ish, very bubble oriented. I think you come in with a lot more perspective when you've worked a little bit after college, had some different experiences, met some different people, and I think that carries over into law firm work, too, where everything that I did before I became a lawyer is helpful in being a lawyer. The way to collaborate with people that you don't necessarily agree with, the way to handle various egos and various emotional needs, organization. These are all extremely relevant stage management skills that come in handy, and the understanding and the ability to explain my clients that litigation is theater. You know you are. Maybe you're presenting for an audience of 12 or 6. If you're dealing with a jury or an audience of one, if you're you're dealing with a judge. But understanding that the I'm going to send a nasty Ram letter to my adversary. But I also know that's that's for theater purposes. That's if I ever need to use it for an exhibit. I'm also getting on the phone with them, and we're going to have a real conversation about how we can solve this. And so when I get the nasty gram from my adversary, I can explain to my client, this is this is their posture. That's fine. You can't take this too seriously because they know and I know they're not getting, you know, 99% of the overnights. That's not something that they're getting, but they're doing this to preserve their little bit and we're going to make it work. So perspective I think is helpful. Was there a part of you? I'm just thinking about the fact that you, your partners, were together for so long and probably had all their own, you know, processes and ways of doing things, and they could, you know, talk without having to say a word. How were you able to integrate yourself into that relationship and be a contributing member? they are Oscar and Felix. They are actually extremely opposite in the way that they function, the way they operate, the way they communicate. So I fall kind of somewhere in between the two of them, which I think helped a lot. I also I what I left out is I'm a little bit nepo baby. So my father had made an attorney and my father was a small town. He did family law. He did, you know, not quite to the same extent, personal injury, but real estate, you know, that sort of stuff. And he had retired while I was in law school. But my partners, they had known him not very well, but they had known his partner. And then they had known my mother, who had been my father's legal secretary. So to know her is to know me. So they had a bigger idea of what they were getting in terms of how, you know, they just have to kind of let me go. They gave me a lot of autonomy, and there was a lot of trust from the very beginning. So the nepo baby part worked out for, I think, for all of us in that regard to. That's interesting because I feel like it's it's difficult to come in and have that type of relationship that long standing up and then be able to like, hey guys, I'm over here. Like, don't you know, don't forget about me. And it sounds like you've done a great job of being able to to integrate yourself into that relationship. Well, they had had they had had associates in the past. So I think that was not new to them. They just had never. And everybody who had ever left the firm had left on good terms. So they clearly were good at working with other people. I just I think also partly they are at a point where they are looking towards retirement and succession planning and handing it off to. So whether it was me or somebody else, I think it was probably time for them to consider a partner. And I got lucky that they decided to promote from within rather than go. And I mean, there have been so many mergers of law firm family law firms in this area, probably everywhere, but especially around here in the last couple of years. Interesting. Alex, how are you thinking about the future? Are you planning on taking over, or is that conversations you guys are having right now? Are you building a skill set? Like, tell me more about how you're thinking about the future of the firm. There's a little bit of a kind of overlap and transition sort of thing. I'm being put in charge of all the technology sort of thing, like we're redoing our website and we have a podcast now and things like that. So working on those things gets that's my area. And more and more, Ron, who is sort of our managing partner, who's the managing partner of when there were two of them, too. He was, you know, the crossing T's and dotting I's guy. He's bringing me more in on that. But I also know was never going to retire. Anybody who's ever met him knows he's never really going to retire. And I'm I'm comfortable with that. Like I respect that. I'm not going to, you know, try and kick him out on the island, you know, the ice floe and send him away. Love it. Alex, we're finishing up here. Give me 2 or 3 pieces of advice that you would give to an associate who's listening to this, who wants to continue to accelerate their career. What? What can you share with them? I think. Don't be afraid to look outside your own firm for guidance. I have mentors outside of my firm as well as as my partners, who I adore because learning best practices, learning new ideas, learning things. How is somebody else doing something or how is somebody else's career advancing that mine is not? And there are firms. Figure out if your firm is a place where you will advance. There are a lot of firms where they're going to keep the associates associates for ever because it benefits them. And ultimately, you know, if you're running an office, you have responsibility to make the office run. And if if losing an associate is going to harm your business, you're not going to promote them. You're not going to to to make their life better just out of the goodness of your heart. So ask around, have friends in different practice areas. To the more you build a book of business, the more autonomy you can have and the more steering your own career you can have. So if you have a friend who does civil defense, where are they sending their matrimonial work? Or you have a friend who does, you know, criminal and they have a lot of crossover in the domestic violence sphere. Are they sending their divorces to somebody like, I have a guy I send my employment work to, I have a friend who I send a discrimination work to if I'm if I'm not handling it. So have those relationships outside your own practice area. So good and so true. Having the ability to ask for help and to take mentorship, even if, you know, you just graduated law school and you think you know everything. There's still lots to learn. And having the humility to do that, I think, has been one consistent piece of advice that we've heard across this podcast for over a year. I'm not surprised. And, you know, I think the more you ask for help, you realize a lot of law practice is just making it up. You know, there may not be a rule that addresses what you're trying to do, or they may not be a precedent for what you're trying to do. So get creative. You have to get creative then. Alex, I really appreciate your time today. Appreciate your insights. Wishing you the best and look forward to continuing to follow your journey. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
